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Mar 10, 2015 23:20:32 GMT 1
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 10, 2015 23:20:32 GMT 1
It's not complicated at all actually. Why do 90% of games fail? Because they think their target demographic is pre-teens. I played Runescape for nearly a decade (with breaks in between of course) and they were just like every other game with their nonsensical childish rules and because of that I quit the game for about 2 or 3 years. During that time RS saw a huge drop in active players and therefor a major decrease in subscriptions and revenue. They realized that they must be doing something wrong and that something needed to change so they did something that is completely taboo in the mmo market and that is actually ask the players what they want to see changed. The players responded that they didn't like the oppressive rules and you know what happened next? Jagex, RS's publisher, got rid of like 90% of the rules and pretty much said "anything goes!" Guess what happened immediately after that... No really... Guess... I will sit here and wait...
They saw an EXPLOSION of activity, higher then ever before, breaking new records. Tons of players like myself returned to the game after years of inactivity. New players have heard rumors about how you could pretty much say and do whatever you wanted in game and decided to join. It was like the industrial revolution that pulled us out of the great depression but in mmo form. And now Runescape is the number 1 browser based game in the world and among the highest played mmos of all time. Meanwhile I see so many other games fail because they keep repeating the same mistakes of babying their player base.
It's like Christ, have devs never heard of this amazing thing called youtube!? You will see 8 year olds spamming profanity while playing a game that has violence and gore, running someone over with a car, splattering blood all over the place and then banging a hooker in the back seat. And you think that children really need to be sheltered and protected!? That is the problem with the industry. It is made up of mostly middle aged men who came from an era that was a lot more conservative and they see the world now as this filthy gutter and they cant adapt to the change. Society is progressive, time moves forward not back and you need to evolve to survive. We don't want to watch Andy Griffith or read Tom Sawyer. We want to see Sylvester Stallone with bulging muscles shoot giant guns and blow stuff up while saving a beautiful woman with a small waist and huge melons. Times have changed, you need to accept that.
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Post by ᅚᅚ ᅚᅚᅚᅚᅚᅚ ᅚᅚᅚᅚᅚᅚ on Mar 11, 2015 0:36:27 GMT 1
Do you guys seriously believe that this community isn't mature enough to handle a reporting tool? Kogama's community? Come on. I believe in us. I'm not entirely sure about that. I've seen quite a bit of really immature players that would gladly abuse it.
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Post by squidward on Mar 11, 2015 1:33:45 GMT 1
We don't want to watch Andy Griffith I
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Post by voxelmaster on Mar 11, 2015 1:42:21 GMT 1
We don't want to watch Andy Griffith Sylvester Stallone makes everything better. If he were casted in Harry Potter imagine how much better it would be. The guy single handedly saved America from communism in Rocky 3, he is the real life Captain America.
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Post by Linkky on Mar 11, 2015 2:25:42 GMT 1
Roblox is Roblox. The community is known to be way more immature than our community. The devs are money hungry there, and there a lot of people who abuse the term, "Noob" in games.
And in regards to Jatsu's post, I believe in this tool as well. This tool can help us, (like I said earlier), stop "things" happening before the devs could stop it, so it would make KoGaMa a happier community faster. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are always finding new ways to report. I still remember the good ol' days of reporting things on Naradaj's Profile.
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Post by voxelmaster on Mar 11, 2015 3:00:49 GMT 1
Roblox is Roblox. The community is known to be way more immature than our community. The devs are money hungry there, and there a lot of people who abuse the term, "Noob" in games. And in regards to Jatsu's post, I believe in this tool as well. This tool can help us, (like I said earlier), stop "things" happening before the devs could stop it, so it would make KoGaMa a happier community faster. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We are always finding new ways to report. I still remember the good ol' days of reporting things on Naradaj's Profile. And then the game becomes a police state where nearly anything you do becomes a violation of some rule you never even heard of before. That is the direction this game is heading in. What exactly is so offensive that people are crying about? Inappropriate game? Don't join. Inappropriate model? Don't buy it or use it in your game. Inappropriate avatar? Don't look at it or leave the current game that you are in. (A neat feature would be a "kick" feature given to the creators of projects, although I feel like this would be abused to no end.) Inappropriate language? Chat censor. Still bothering you? Leave the current game that you are in. Inappropriate language via messages? Delete the messages and do not respond. Like really, are we all 4 year olds or what? I have played this game on and off since it was released and I have never once seen anything that I thought was "so offensive" that it warranted a ban. Ban's should be reserved for legit hackers, the extremely few if any that exist and I don't mean something as trivial as a speed hack or model creation exploit. I mean people who hack xp, silver, etc. and as far as I know, it is currently not possible to do that because the information is stored on the server side and not locally on your pc.
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Post by Jatsu on Mar 11, 2015 4:11:17 GMT 1
We are always finding new ways to report. I still remember the good ol' days of reporting things on Naradaj's Profile. Please explain? I don't remember him acting as a serious moderator on the website. What exactly is so offensive that people are crying about? Inappropriate game? Don't join. Inappropriate model? Don't buy it or use it in your game. Inappropriate avatar? Don't look at it or leave the current game that you are in. ... Inappropriate language? Chat censor. Still bothering you? Leave the current game that you are in. Inappropriate language via messages? Delete the messages and do not respond. I used to believe this too; that people are capable of choosing the content they wish to see. Unfortunately, you can't rely on people to always show this level of maturity and discipline. You end up needing some level of moderation for several reasons. For one, if there are volatile players who voice noisy complaints about certain content, then it can make the community unhappy which hurts the experience. Next, there are copyrighted content (from artists/devs outside of Kogama) that needs to be reported and taken down in order to protect both the rights of the original creator and Kogama from legal damages. Lastly, there are benefits to both overall quality of content and community behavior when inappropriate content is removed and instigating or maliciously behaving players are dealt with. I'm sure other arguments can be made, but ultimately, reporting tools and preventative measures help maintain the quality of the website and community. I think having a reporting tool is better to have than not, and I don't think it will get easily abused.
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Post by Linkky on Mar 11, 2015 4:33:11 GMT 1
A couple months or so, Naradaj allowed us to report games on his profile in a post kind-of-thing he made. It is no longer there, however.
He was never a serious moderator, (I think), but I guess he was just helping out with the community for once?
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Mar 11, 2015 9:59:25 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by YL on Mar 11, 2015 9:59:25 GMT 1
It's not complicated at all actually. Why do 90% of games fail? Because they think their target demographic is pre-teens. I played Runescape for nearly a decade (with breaks in between of course) and they were just like every other game with their nonsensical childish rules and because of that I quit the game for about 2 or 3 years. During that time RS saw a huge drop in active players and therefor a major decrease in subscriptions and revenue. They realized that they must be doing something wrong and that something needed to change so they did something that is completely taboo in the mmo market and that is actually ask the players what they want to see changed. The players responded that they didn't like the oppressive rules and you know what happened next? Jagex, RS's publisher, got rid of like 90% of the rules and pretty much said "anything goes!" Guess what happened immediately after that... No really... Guess... I will sit here and wait... They saw an EXPLOSION of activity, higher then ever before, breaking new records. Tons of players like myself returned to the game after years of inactivity. New players have heard rumors about how you could pretty much say and do whatever you wanted in game and decided to join. It was like the industrial revolution that pulled us out of the great depression but in mmo form. And now Runescape is the number 1 browser based game in the world and among the highest played mmos of all time. Meanwhile I see so many other games fail because they keep repeating the same mistakes of babying their player base. It's like Christ, have devs never heard of this amazing thing called youtube!? You will see 8 year olds spamming profanity while playing a game that has violence and gore, running someone over with a car, splattering blood all over the place and then banging a hooker in the back seat. And you think that children really need to be sheltered and protected!? That is the problem with the industry. It is made up of mostly middle aged men who came from an era that was a lot more conservative and they see the world now as this filthy gutter and they cant adapt to the change. Society is progressive, time moves forward not back and you need to evolve to survive. We don't want to watch Andy Griffith or read Tom Sawyer. We want to see Sylvester Stallone with bulging muscles shoot giant guns and blow stuff up while saving a beautiful woman with a small waist and huge melons. Times have changed, you need to accept that. There's a difference, Runescape is oriented towards teenagers, and in that game it makes sense that rules can be too much. Kogama is oriented towards 6-12 year olds. Guess what would happen if the admins did nothing to stop the inappropriate content? The parents of the most young people wouldn't allow them to play Kogama anymore because they don't want their kids to see that type of content. Most of the players on Kogama are under 12, and this can seem to you older people in this forum as "babying the community" but in reality it's needed for parents to trust Kogama and let their kids play here
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Post by Linkky on Mar 11, 2015 20:30:04 GMT 1
I still remember the good ol' days of "us" being the good portion of older people in KoGaMa. That was until one day, "it rained kids and new young profiles".
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Mar 11, 2015 20:49:40 GMT 1
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 11, 2015 20:49:40 GMT 1
It's not complicated at all actually. Why do 90% of games fail? Because they think their target demographic is pre-teens. I played Runescape for nearly a decade (with breaks in between of course) and they were just like every other game with their nonsensical childish rules and because of that I quit the game for about 2 or 3 years. During that time RS saw a huge drop in active players and therefor a major decrease in subscriptions and revenue. They realized that they must be doing something wrong and that something needed to change so they did something that is completely taboo in the mmo market and that is actually ask the players what they want to see changed. The players responded that they didn't like the oppressive rules and you know what happened next? Jagex, RS's publisher, got rid of like 90% of the rules and pretty much said "anything goes!" Guess what happened immediately after that... No really... Guess... I will sit here and wait... They saw an EXPLOSION of activity, higher then ever before, breaking new records. Tons of players like myself returned to the game after years of inactivity. New players have heard rumors about how you could pretty much say and do whatever you wanted in game and decided to join. It was like the industrial revolution that pulled us out of the great depression but in mmo form. And now Runescape is the number 1 browser based game in the world and among the highest played mmos of all time. Meanwhile I see so many other games fail because they keep repeating the same mistakes of babying their player base. It's like Christ, have devs never heard of this amazing thing called youtube!? You will see 8 year olds spamming profanity while playing a game that has violence and gore, running someone over with a car, splattering blood all over the place and then banging a hooker in the back seat. And you think that children really need to be sheltered and protected!? That is the problem with the industry. It is made up of mostly middle aged men who came from an era that was a lot more conservative and they see the world now as this filthy gutter and they cant adapt to the change. Society is progressive, time moves forward not back and you need to evolve to survive. We don't want to watch Andy Griffith or read Tom Sawyer. We want to see Sylvester Stallone with bulging muscles shoot giant guns and blow stuff up while saving a beautiful woman with a small waist and huge melons. Times have changed, you need to accept that. There's a difference, Runescape is oriented towards teenagers, and in that game it makes sense that rules can be too much. Kogama is oriented towards 6-12 year olds. Guess what would happen if the admins did nothing to stop the inappropriate content? The parents of the most young people wouldn't allow them to play Kogama anymore because they don't want their kids to see that type of content. Most of the players on Kogama are under 12, and this can seem to you older people in this forum as "babying the community" but in reality it's needed for parents to trust Kogama and let their kids play here And this is why this game is failing. The activity of this game has dropped tremendously since its peak a few years ago. You used to see 20+ games being played at any given time, now you are lucky to see any at all. The few games that are actively being played are nothing more then xp farms. No longer are the days when people would join a game just to chat and have fun. Those days are long gone. The difference is that back then you didn't have the constant witch hunts for "inappropriate content." You'd join a game with nudity and profanity and have yourself a good laugh. I used to literally join a game and just joke around and chat for hours, losing track of time. Things were a lot more enjoyable back then but the oppressive polices have made this game into a killjoy. You say that kogama is oriented to 6-12 year olds, I say that is the very problem in itself. You say that the game would lose players if it went back to how it was before when the game was still in its prime, I say the opposite will happen and even if we lose a few 6 year old players we will gain more mature players to replace the ones we have lost. The big difference here is a 6 year old is far less likely to invest in a game then a 16 year old. It would be financially wise to drop this childish nonsense and allow kogama to be a place where you have the creative freedom to do almost anything you want to do.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:04:59 GMT 1
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 11, 2015 21:04:59 GMT 1
We are always finding new ways to report. I still remember the good ol' days of reporting things on Naradaj's Profile. Please explain? I don't remember him acting as a serious moderator on the website. What exactly is so offensive that people are crying about? Inappropriate game? Don't join. Inappropriate model? Don't buy it or use it in your game. Inappropriate avatar? Don't look at it or leave the current game that you are in. ... Inappropriate language? Chat censor. Still bothering you? Leave the current game that you are in. Inappropriate language via messages? Delete the messages and do not respond. I used to believe this too; that people are capable of choosing the content they wish to see. Unfortunately, you can't rely on people to always show this level of maturity and discipline. You end up needing some level of moderation for several reasons. For one, if there are volatile players who voice noisy complaints about certain content, then it can make the community unhappy which hurts the experience. Next, there are copyrighted content (from artists/devs outside of Kogama) that needs to be reported and taken down in order to protect both the rights of the original creator and Kogama from legal damages. Lastly, there are benefits to both overall quality of content and community behavior when inappropriate content is removed and instigating or maliciously behaving players are dealt with. I'm sure other arguments can be made, but ultimately, reporting tools and preventative measures help maintain the quality of the website and community. I think having a reporting tool is better to have than not, and I don't think it will get easily abused. First paragraph: Why? No, we don't need to hold anyone's hand. You see something you don't like, you leave that game, that simple. Sure some moderation needs to exist but not solely for the purpose of enforcing oppressive policies. If someone is being constantly followed and harassed, sure someone should step in and resolve that issue but if I make a game, specifically label it to be for mature audiences and then someone willing and intentionally joins then that's on them. Again I have already given a possible solution to this problem anyway with different game tabs to filter through what type of game you are specifically searching for.
Have you ever seen anyone sued for building a Mc Donalds or a Walmart in minecraft? Really, copyrights? I'd really like even one specific example on how this is relevant just so I can immediately debunk it. The rest of the paragraph is in regards to trolls. I already addressed this in my last paragraph. Additional features we can have is a personal mute/block button where you can add someone to your ignore list and it will censor everything they say so that you don't have to see it.
Reporting is fine, literally everything being a reportable offense is not fine. You keep making the assertion that more rules=more enjoyable playing experience however extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence. In my experience, the opposite is usually true where less rules=more fun and I have even provided an example of how another game was hurting financially because of it's strict rules and as soon as they ditched those rules they had a massive rally and became incredibly financially successful afterward. I have even used the example with this game where a few years ago it was less moderated and there was a lot more activity as opposed to now with the constant witch hunts going on every other day. Unless you can provide specific examples on how a heavily moderated game has resulted in more activity in said game then I move this claim over to dismissal.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:44:42 GMT 1
via mobile
Post by YL on Mar 11, 2015 21:44:42 GMT 1
First of all, you're saying that Kogama had its popularity peak a few years ago. I suppose that with a few you mean 3, which means you're saying that Kogama reached the peak of its popularity in 2012 spring. At that time it was rare for people even to be online at games and Kogama had under 10000 players in total versus today's over 5 million Secondly, you're saying that Kogama should allow people to do anything they want and don't care about the younger people. How many 18 year olds have you seen who are interested in building games online with very limited possibilities in a community full of kids? Not many I think, now compare this to how many 10 year olds want this, it would be fun and interesting to try for almost all of them You're overreacting about the rules way too much, you're thinking that the admins are on a "witch hunt" for inappropriate content. Admins aren't even searching for inappropriate content, they only delete it if they see it somewhere. I've seen a year old inappropriate models and avatars and nothing is done to them. In the EU server, an inappropriate game can be on the front page for hours before admins remove it, on Roblox the amount would be seconds or minutes. You're also saying that Kogama is currently "flopping" and "failing" and going to crash soon, you're basing this on the US server being changed to a test server. In reality Kogama's popularity is on the rise. Below is a link to Google trends, it shows how much Kogama is searched each month: www.google.com/trends/explore#q=KogamaKogama reached the peak in August last year due to advertising on sites like a10.com. The search amount is currently on rise which means that Kogama is getting more and more popular every day, flopping and failing eh?
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Mar 11, 2015 22:20:41 GMT 1
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 11, 2015 22:20:41 GMT 1
I couldn't nail it down to a specific year or month, I just remember the game being a lot more active with at least 20+ games being played at any given time as opposed to nearly 0 now. Ask any veteran player and they will tell you the same, the game definitely has hit its peak along time ago and has been only declining since. You boast about how many accounts exist now but that is entirely irrelevant. The majority of those accounts are either inactive or clone accounts that players made and used to abuse things like silver, gold, likes, etc. And I see far more 16+ year olds playing this game then the 10 year olds that you suggest make up the majority of the player base. That is of course when/if I see anyone playing at all... which is rare at this point. The few veteran players that I know still play this game are all older more mature builders who spend the majority of their time working on models rather then participating in game. I know that is the only reason that I still play.
Admins aren't searching for inappropriate content? You must be kidding me... Both me and a friend of mine were banned a few months ago for next to no reason at all and when I explained this to the admins and they couldn't find a reason to validate their actions, they had to dig deep into my past and pull out models that I had made like 2 years ago to use for a reason to ban me since their original reason didn't hold up. The fact that more and more threads keep popping up as a result of people being banned for things like using cheat engine in model creation is evidence that they are actually searching despite what you claim. The fact that an inappropriate game can remain on the front page for a little while isn't evidence that they are not searching, it is evidence that they have a very small team which can not investigate each offense as quickly as some other games that might have a bigger budget.
Your graph supports my claims more then it does yours. Look at the large decline after August. The reason you see a small rebound now I suspect is because of the new xp system which I have already mentioned as being the sole reason why you see any games being played at all anymore. And while this may slow the rate of decent, it is only a mere stall tactic to delay the inevitable. Again, don't ask me, ask the rest of the community what they think and you will be told by many that they think this game has been going down hill for a long time. You can refuse to admit that all you want but I think its pretty obvious at this point. Its also funny that you try to use the EU server in defense. I just checked it out and almost no games have more then 2 people in them. Yeah, you know what? You've managed to change my mind. This game is booming! A whooping 2 players per game is an achievement to herald as the golden age for kogama! I am convinced. Thank you.
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Mar 11, 2015 22:29:29 GMT 1
Post by Daniel Everland on Mar 11, 2015 22:29:29 GMT 1
You're both right in your own way, actually.
The average age for active players on the friends server is quite a lot higher than that of main server. Saying most are 16+ is a bit out of reach, but around 14-15 is relatively spot on. Santeripe is right about the average age on the main server though.
Looking at Google search history is relatively accurate, but it does tell a different tale than that which you describe. We get most of our traffic from game platforms, not directly from Google. Your base point is correct though, Santeripe, we have more activity on the main server than ever, and we still continue to do so.
Voxel, regarding you and your friends ban, that sounds really strange to me. If you send me your ID I'll look into it for you. We have to input a reason when banning someone, so it seems a bit weird that the admin you spoke to couldn't quickly pull out an answer for you.
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