|
|
Post by nochillwill on Mar 8, 2015 7:22:16 GMT 1
I'm new and I already quit because I spent hours on my project and I need to be level 3 to publish it. smh
|
|
|
|
Post by YL on Mar 8, 2015 10:15:17 GMT 1
I'm just surprised the ''Gain XP'' projects haven't been showing up yet. Did the devs do something to stop that or what? There is an xp farm in the "Escape from prison" level and it always has over 10 people online |
|
|
|
Post by Jatsu on Mar 9, 2015 9:40:24 GMT 1
Here's another scenario where XP restrictions fail:
If the developers were to create a new server, then the new players who sign up there wouldn't be able to publish anything. There would be no games to play to earn XP in unless if they copied games over from another server. Players would be forced to grind XP in a small handful of games before they can use the rest of Kogama's features. Unless if XP restrictions were temporarily lifted, the new server would undoubtedly struggle at minimal growth.
Here's yet another explanation of the issue:
Lets assume the true intentions behind XP restrictions are to reduce spam and inappropriate content. There has to be better alternatives that don't suppress creators and legitimate content creation to such an extreme. Otherwise, there needs to be modifications to the current implementation that minimizes the damage it causes. So far in this thread, I've discussed methods of the latter.
Here's another suggestion for a complete and workable alternative:
Require a verified e-mail address to unlock publish functions. The benefits of having personal information connected to an account is widely beneficial. It's a useful form of communication if something ever goes wrong, be it customer support or a legal dispute. More importantly, it holds the owner more accountable if they ever breach the ToS agreement. As an extra variable of security, e-mails deter abusing players as a measure of integrity and an extra or tedious step to bypass any bans against them.
|
|
|
|
Post by YL on Mar 9, 2015 12:02:19 GMT 1
Here's another scenario where XP restrictions fail:If the developers were to create a new server, then the new players who sign up there wouldn't be able to publish anything. There would be no games to play to earn XP in unless if they copied games over from another server. Players would be forced to grind XP in a small handful of games before they can use the rest of Kogama's features. Unless if XP restrictions were temporarily lifted, the new server would undoubtedly struggle at minimal growth. Here's yet another explanation of the issue:Lets assume the true intentions behind XP restrictions are to reduce spam and inappropriate content. There has to be better alternatives that don't suppress creators and legitimate content creation to such an extreme. Otherwise, there needs to be modifications to the current implementation that minimizes the damage it causes. So far in this thread, I've discussed methods of the latter. Here's another suggestion for a complete and workable alternative:Require a verified e-mail address to unlock publish functions. The benefits of having personal information connected to an account is widely beneficial. It's a useful form of communication if something ever goes wrong, be it customer support or a legal dispute. More importantly, it holds the owner more accountable if they ever breach the ToS agreement. As an extra variable of security, e-mails deter abusing players as a measure of integrity and an extra or tedious step to bypass any bans against them. I agree, there must be a better way of blocking inappropriate content than an XP limitation Email confirmed feature is not a good idea because the user who was repeatedly banned can create as many emails / accounts as he wants which makes the feature useless Better way is to have a feature where the account has to be 1 or 2 days old to publish models or projects (users learn to build in the first few days too so this would raise the quality of new games and new models also) This would also fix almost all other problems if the account would have to be 6 hours old to buy models and like games |
|
|
|
Post by savarin on Mar 9, 2015 13:25:34 GMT 1
Here's another scenario where XP restrictions fail:If the developers were to create a new server, then the new players who sign up there wouldn't be able to publish anything. There would be no games to play to earn XP in unless if they copied games over from another server. Players would be forced to grind XP in a small handful of games before they can use the rest of Kogama's features. Unless if XP restrictions were temporarily lifted, the new server would undoubtedly struggle at minimal growth. Here's yet another explanation of the issue:Lets assume the true intentions behind XP restrictions are to reduce spam and inappropriate content. There has to be better alternatives that don't suppress creators and legitimate content creation to such an extreme. Otherwise, there needs to be modifications to the current implementation that minimizes the damage it causes. So far in this thread, I've discussed methods of the latter. Here's another suggestion for a complete and workable alternative:Require a verified e-mail address to unlock publish functions. The benefits of having personal information connected to an account is widely beneficial. It's a useful form of communication if something ever goes wrong, be it customer support or a legal dispute. More importantly, it holds the owner more accountable if they ever breach the ToS agreement. As an extra variable of security, e-mails deter abusing players as a measure of integrity and an extra or tedious step to bypass any bans against them. I agree, there must be a better way of blocking inappropriate content than an XP limitation Email confirmed feature is not a good idea because the user who was repeatedly banned can create as many emails / accounts as he wants which makes the feature useless Better way is to have a feature where the account has to be 1 or 2 days old to publish models or projects (users learn to build in the first few days too so this would raise the quality of new games and new models also) This would also fix almost all other problems if the account would have to be 6 hours old to buy models and like games That sounds like a godd alternative as a sort of restriction against spammers. I also agree that the restrictions based on xp has to many drawbacks for other players. So a limitation based on time has really sope advantages as Santeripe said earlier. So i hope it will be changed soon to support the playerd who really likes this game. Over and out  |
|
|
|
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 9, 2015 20:53:38 GMT 1
I'm glad to see that even Jatsu has concerns for the current xp/level restrictions. And while I would not agree with the email confirmation alternative, I really do hope the devs thoroughly read and consider our opinions on the subject.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jatsu on Mar 9, 2015 20:56:52 GMT 1
You're never going to have a system that preventatively blocks all spam and inappropriate content. Even the current XP restrictions aren't working perfectly. There are existing players who break the rules and there are dedicated exploiters who constantly get around them. The same thing would happen regardless if it was limited by e-mail verification or if there was a time-based block. Ideally, there should be some form of website moderation and reporting tools to catch what the preventative measures miss.
It takes two minutes in an XP farm to reach level 4. Two minutes. Stop acting like it's a long enough time-deterrent for abuse. Existing players will always know how to game the system, but a newly registered player will not. E-mail verification also takes two minutes, but the benefits to account security outweigh the drawbacks for new creators.
So this led me to also consider time-based blocks. But the same situation occurs. What makes you think a dedicated exploiter doesn't have time to waste? You're only delaying when bad content gets published. In the meantime, you once again block features that would be useful in helping a new player learn how to use them. The argument that it would improve their level's quality is also false. Being told you can't do something doesn't mean a person would do it better. Creativity is a learning experience, you get better through trial and error and practice. You gain none of that if you're not allowed to share your work in order to test it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jatsu on Mar 9, 2015 21:02:51 GMT 1
I'm glad to see that even Jatsu has concerns for the current xp/level restrictions. And while I would not agree with the email confirmation alternative, I really do hope the devs thoroughly read and consider our opinions on the subject. I created this thread. ._.
The developers should create a complex AI that crosschecks all content with the acceptable kind. It places a hold on any published content that gets flagged for a human to look through later to accept or decline. That human input can be combined with machine learning to make that AI even stronger as time goes on. There should also be a report or flag tool available to the player. If any player ever feels that something is inappropriate or of bad taste, they can report it! If enough reports occur, the content gets removed or also moved to a holding area for final moderation. Too ambitious? Right, I know. A player report tool takes at minimum four years to make. An AI maybe 20 years from now. /sarcasm |
|
|
|
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 9, 2015 21:39:23 GMT 1
I'm glad to see that even Jatsu has concerns for the current xp/level restrictions. And while I would not agree with the email confirmation alternative, I really do hope the devs thoroughly read and consider our opinions on the subject. I created this thread. ._.
The developers should create a complex AI that crosschecks all content with the acceptable kind. It places a hold on any published content that gets flagged for a human to look through later to accept or decline. That human input can be combined with machine learning to make that AI even stronger as time goes on. There should also be a report or flag tool available to the player. If any player ever feels that something is inappropriate or of bad taste, they can report it! If enough reports occur, the content gets removed or also moved to a holding area for final moderation. Too ambitious? Right, I know. A player report tool takes at minimum four years to make. An AI maybe 20 years from now. /sarcasm Or...We can simply...Let anything go... I don't see any reason why there needs to be enforced "parenting." "Look away children, your eyes are so innocent and pure!" This is the internet after all where the most obscene and vulgar content is only a google search away. You probably aren't going to witness anything on kogama that you haven't seen a million times already from a million different sources. If you're mature enough to navigate the internet and have your own email address to be able to create an account on kogama, then you are probably mature enough to tolerate it's material. Now I understand that not everyone is a sleazy pervert like myself and would prefer not to see that sort of thing so I do agree that there needs to be some kind of filtration program to weed out content that might not be appropriate for all ages but there is a very simple fix to that.
All they need to do is have a "tags" checkbox system like youtube has. So like there would be different checkboxes for different genres that would assort games based on type and then corresponding tabs in the game menu for easier navigation and filtration. So for example you can have a racing checkbox and by clicking that your game now belongs in the racing game tab. All mature content would have a "mature or 18+" checkbox and thus belong in it's own tab that way the only way you are going to see any supposed inappropriate content is by willing and intentionally navigating to the mature game tab. You can even include a secondary confirmation screen before entering a game prompting a player to answer whether or not they really wish to view that game's content. Now of course not everyone is going to follow the rules and there will be a handful of trolls who will purposely mislabel their game by clicking in the wrong checkbox and moderation/punishment should be reserved for those individuals. So there should be a button to flag a game so that it sends a message to the moderators for inspection. (Doesn't such feature already exist?)
I don't know what any of this has to do with xp/level restrictions however, which is what I was originally commenting about. I think all xp/level restrictions should be removed so that the only function it serves is for competitive leaderboards. And even in that regard it seems like most players are uninterested so I would argue that the system either be removed completely or at least entirely revised in such a way which makes it actually fun to participate in and not some tedious arbitrary standard to unlock certain features. Honestly I think the only reason anyone even likes the xp/level system at all is because of the new obtainable badges it offers. The devs should focus more on reward based systems rather then punishing limit based systems which only serve to discourage new players from wanting to play as evident in some of previous posts in this thread. But that's just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by Linkky on Mar 10, 2015 4:09:46 GMT 1
Honestly, it is all just your opinions on the XP System.
Back in mid-2012, when I joined, XP Systems were around, but were utterly useless:
The Devs said that they were going to award you with Gold or something like that when you leveled up, which would actually be pretty neat.
Unfortunately, that never happened. The XP Systems were then visibly removed until at least November or December 2014 as far as I recall it. However, there was a way to track down interesting info about your profile and could still work: You were able to find out the exact day and time you created your account, and you were also able to take a look at all of the XP you've secretly earned in the times that you've played KoGaMa. I forgot how you could've done that. It's been a few months since I looked at my profile's honest info.
But in my opinion, XP Systems are one of the most crafty things ever invented on KoGaMa, but it just needs to be a bit touched up and less frustrating with the nerve-wrecking Requirements that most players find difficult to go after.
It is a big reason why we created this thread: To make some great suggestions for fixing XP Requirements, so KoGaMa would be a happier community again, at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by voxelmaster on Mar 10, 2015 5:01:37 GMT 1
I absolutely agree. The xp system would be a lot more enjoyable if it actually rewarded those who participate rather then punish those who don't participate through level restrictions. Gold or even silver rewards for milestone achievements would be infinitely better then what we have now. As it stands, I don't really see any incentive to actively grind away for xp for any reason other then the badges and honestly considering the time required to achieve those badges it is really not worth it. And I know a lot of players feel the exact same way because while barely ever playing this game and without even trying I have still managed to rank within the top 300 players so obviously most players do not feel encouraged or enthused over the xp system. If a scrub like me can achieve that rank then even a non-sentient lifeless object can. Again, I really do hope the devs are actually reading and considering our suggestions. For a long time I thought this game was hopeless and destined for failure but a tiny fraction of my faith was restored when they posted that picture of the white board with planned content. It feels like they are potentially finally getting their stuff straightened out and perhaps better days are on the horizon.
|
|
|
|
Post by mrsovietonion on Mar 10, 2015 14:56:15 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by YL on Mar 10, 2015 15:34:29 GMT 1
It takes two minutes in an XP farm to reach level 4. Two minutes. Stop acting like it's a long enough time-deterrent for abuse. Existing players will always know how to game the system, but a newly registered player will not. E-mail verification also takes two minutes, but the benefits to account security outweigh the drawbacks for new creators. In the EU server it takes 2-3 days, also you're not taking in consideration the parkour XP cooldown time which is 1 hour In the Friends server you earn 20 xp from 5 parkour jumps and the maximum amount in one hour is 2000 xp (Means that even in the Friends server you would have to first visit an xp farm first once and then once again after 1 hour to get to Level 4) In the EU server the maximum amount of parkour xp in one hour is 100 which means you would have to visit an xp farm once an hour for 24 hours to get to Level 4 |
|
|
|
Post by Jatsu on Mar 10, 2015 15:51:13 GMT 1
Bro, do you even parkour 360?
|
|
|
|
Post by mrsovietonion on Mar 10, 2015 15:57:09 GMT 1
Bro, do you even parkour 360? i know u are but wut am i |
|
